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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jul 21, 2010 5:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The annual rant

So, I have completed my in-depth survey of the 73-74 and I feel a Lewis Black rant coming on. Why is it that the Dead and Jerry just don’t get no respect? I have listened to stretches of amazing music that I know no one else could have created. It doesn’t have to get too obscure either. All you have to do is listen to publicly released material.

How about an outrageous country cowboy boogie band? How many Big Rivers/Uncles/MBlues do you need to listen to? How many country folks owe some of their careers to Heads traveling in their direction because of Dead covers?

How about a hot R&R band? How many US Blues/Sat Night/Promised Land/JBG do you need to hear?

How about a hot funk band? There was never a disco Dead. DITS in the late 70’s was funked to the max. Sly Stone on acid. And listen to some of the insane places they hit during the pre-retirement jams.

How about leaders in avant-garde music? Why aren’t the Dead known as musical pioneers. As giants? Cage, Glass, Ives?? Listen to 6/28/74 jams how they go from staggering eloquence to intense space and back almost in stride. On the fly – over and over – for 30 years!

Why doesn’t Jerry get his real due? A guy who could fluently speak 5 or 6 guitar language and be eloquent in all of them. Bluegrass, Country, Boogie, Electronic, R&R, Jazz, etc.

Why isn't Phil known as one of the great bass innovators in music?

And for the biggest why the fuck, why aren’t the 60’s Dead known as the best boogie band in the history of rock? How many Pig songs does one have to listen to?

I was a jazz snob in college. Mid 60’s. Got turned onto rock by the Cream (that’s for you Tell), but I always felt sort of intellectually guilty. So when jazz guys decided they wanted to become rock gods too, I was all for it. I saw Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Al DiMeola, Jan Hammer, Chick Corea, Stanley Clark. The Dead in their 72-74 glory would never have to bow their heads to any of them. Maybe on a technical level of some sort, but never for the music they put out.

So why is this? Why does it sometime seem that even Phish has a greater musical rep than the Dead? Why is it no one has done real research and put this type of info out into the public arena? Why do I feel like the UCSC and NYC museums are just artifact terminals – like using the Dead as avatars to see how wonderful the 60’s were? Or not.

I would be willing to guarantee that the intelligence, passion, research, and breadth of knowledge on this site and on other blogs far surpasses what has gone on in the public domain. Why is that? Why is it when DH Monte says he wants to be head curator at UCSC I don’t think that it’s nuts?

To quote Lewis Black,"Fuck". There, I feel much better. Am I wrong? Any opinions or should I edge off the screen now?

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

I hate Illinois nazis.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

I try to be open minded , and inclusive , and everything . It makes me feel so much better about myself to think so .
I can't believe I am going to write this . I know , it's so wrong to be prejudiced . So naughty to make such blanket statements . But .. but .. I hate Nazi's too , or at least strongly dislike them . I do not like them From Everywhere , not just IL . Even when the are little . Sarah said they can be so cute then , but I do not care .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWO4WtZpbSY

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jul 22, 2010 5:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

Its a line from The Blues Brothers movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8_aJcul6kk&;feature=related

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Poster: madmonkmcphee Date: Jul 22, 2010 11:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

Just wanna add that it all boils down to personal preference. I think most musicians respect this band because they can recognize the talent and hard work. Most people that don't either don't know what it takes to make music or are close-minded. That's fine, imagine a world where everybody loved GD. Some bands I can't stand but I do recognize that there's talent and musicianship, just not my kinda music.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Jul 22, 2010 1:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

speaking from a relatively "younger" deadhead's perspective, a lot of what i see and hear among my age group is a lot of what i'd call the "ADD" crowd (please understand i don't mean any offense to people with that condition.) Now i don't want to generalize either, but a lot of kids my age seem to have short attention spans. i.e., they "like" the dead but just don't get that into them b/c their too "slow" "mellow" etc., which i personally never understood (i mean just listen to anything from 67-71 and even try to call it mellow, not to mention a lot of "mellow" dead is some the most intense experiences i've ever had).

i think a lot of it is the main problem that seems to have been brought up here of close-mindedness, but i also blame it on drugs like ecstasy and some of the newer "jam bands" who imo aren't that talented and only fuel this short attention span problem. again, i don't want to sound like i'm generalizing (even though i probably am) but that’s just the way i feel. a lot of people i know just don't seem as into the dead as me and i never got it.

(btw i fit the stereotype of dreds and faux-hippie but i do consider myself fairly intelligent and i try to treat others with respect and kindness :)


This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2010-07-22 20:48:31

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 22, 2010 7:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant


Summer of Love - 1967 - and The Grateful Dead

Joel Selvin: "The music changed just immediately. I cannot explain to you what it's like to be in a crowd of 5,000 people on LSD with the Grateful Dead, also on LSD, leading the crowd through a series of improvisations. Before that, rock and roll songs were three minutes, period, paragraph, we're out of here."

Peter Coyote: "It was such an exciting, heady time to find out that under the official reality there was this seething turmoil of young people, learning new music, new thoughts, new ideas, new literature, new poetry, new ways of being."

Narrator: "This 'turmoil of young people' was, in part, due to sheer numbers. Never before had so many Americans been under 25. There were over 90 million of them, nearly half the population. And many were disillusioned with the world around them. The president many had found inspiring had been assassinated barely three years earlier. War in Vietnam was killing a hundred American soldiers every week. Month after month dozens of young men were being drafted into the army. And the struggle for civil rights at home had grown increasingly militant."

"They were derided by some as junior grade hipsters, "hippies" for short. Many began experimenting with communal living in the large Victorian houses of the Haight, and visions of a utopian society began taking shape, enhanced by a mind-altering new drug called LSD, or acid.
"

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

Testify, my brother

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Poster: elkdog Date: Jul 21, 2010 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

I agree with your points- the Dead's rep among non-heads tends to discount their versatility and chops.
That said, I think they did ok for themselves.

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Poster: snori Date: Jul 22, 2010 3:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

It is strange. I know people who believe the Dead are a heavy metal band because there are skeletons on the sleeves. Then there are others who think 'Grateful Dead' is shorthand for West Coast self indulgence.

On the plus side I have converted quite a few by simply playing them the music - 'Oh, I didn't expect it to be like that'. So don't give up, they (and in particular Phil) will get the credit they're due one day.

And on a further plus side it is encouraging how many musicians express their admiration for the boys.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 21, 2010 6:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

yes it gets to me too. The bottom line is with most people they believe what they have always believed or want to believe and for whatever reason are afraid to re-examine rethink or revisit their opinions. This goes for more than music.

And the folks who have an otherwise open mind to music - don't ask me i don't get it. As hard as it is not understanding what's NOT to like, what I can't abide is how can you not at least respect them. Out of ALL the bands that lasted that long who kept it the most real innovative and provided the most value to fans? Didn't get sucked into fashion over the music.Other geezers like the stones had to have big stage shows and all of those bands charged more than the Dead. And the Dead played smaller venues longer than they could get away with. Shit they were still playing the Kaiser and the Greek years after the Touch of Grey explosion.

oh and last - I will be grilling some sentient being tonight in the form of New York steaks. Not my favorite but they were on sale.

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2010-07-22 01:50:56

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

I think the reason the Dead, and guys like Jerry and Phil do not receive the proper respect is a very simple one:

The majority of human beings are simple minded and possess an alarmingly low level of intelligence.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 22, 2010 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

You sometimes get that ," If I want to listen to jazz..., If I want ot listen to country..." . Sure if you put it that way , but when they were at the top of their game , It all blended together in a single style you can only call "Grateful Dead".
Remember also , that many later day Jazzbos dismiss the whole fusion thing , as over amplified commercialism , and Rock snobs , dismiss any song longer than 5 minuets , as "indulgent" or "wanky" . And, say the Dead's post Pigpen " kindness, and "mellowness", didn't fit in a musical world , where , "attitude" and cynicism is hip .Phil's comment about the Dead as being "Lame, but noble ", says alot . BOTH of those qualities are not "c o o l" .
In the end of the day , there are plenty who dismiss them, but the fact that some of the greatest innovators in their fields, say Bob Dylan, Ornette Coleman, both played with this "lame" band . I wonder if they saw something that others missed ...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 21, 2010 8:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

"Why is it that the Dead and Jerry just don’t get no respect?"

in short: deadheads

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 21, 2010 9:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

After forty - five years , this thing we share is still in its own distinct niche , in American life . It has not been consumed and homogenized . Most people looking into this little world see it refracted through so many different lenses , God knows what they see .
Most of our family thinks Deb & I have a certain , incurable form of mild insanity when it comes to GD . You should see the concerned , pinched looks on their faces sometimes . Oh well , they mean well . And all's well .

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jul 21, 2010 10:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

And don't forget eye rolling.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 21, 2010 8:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

yeah but can you define that Arb? I don't want to diss any of my patchouli brethren here but I have found the MOST ardent followers of the band to look unlike the stereotype myself - usually the college looking type - short hair, t-shirt, incredibly diverse and educated and less like the stereotype with dreds ect. But I guess that's what you mean? And the actions of fools that look like that that ruined the scene with their gate crashing bullshit antics?

or maybe you were referring to how we are always pushing our band on people trying to get them to understand like a cult? Guess that makes more sense

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2010-07-22 03:08:13

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 22, 2010 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

you know, when i read the original post, the first thing that popped into my head without thinking, was my above reply, and now that i've thought about it some more, my answer is not any different; i think i just meant that it's not unusual for a 'movement' (if i can use that term) to be viewed through the eyes of those within and who support the 'movement', and whatever our personal experience with others who enjoy the GD's music, perhaps even enjoyed the scene and the culture and whatnot, it's how the whole movement is perceived by those outside the scene that defines how it is critically accepted; you and i both know that the GD members were more than just skilled musicians, as the original poster stated, they did things musically for 30 years (okay, maybe 15ish) that others who had a similar longevity just were not doing; i agree with this, but it doesn't really bother me, what those who comment on the culture think; critics, to me, are nothing more than busybodies, they could all disappear and it wouldn't make one iota of difference to the world; whereas Jerry's departure had a ripple effect that is still being felt today; i'm probably not explaining it all very well, but i just got home and haven't had a chance to breathe

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jul 23, 2010 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

Well I did say it was a rant. I just don't get that collecting artifacts in museums or colleges like 1967 concert posters or Jerry's picks does a whole lot. Then again, not everyone knows that the sky is yellow and the sun is blue.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jul 22, 2010 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

First, ripple effect. Perfect.

Second, Jerry's life more than his departure created a ripple effect.

Last, I completely agree about critics and lawyers and overbearing government.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 22, 2010 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

'Critics can't even make music by rubbing their back legs together." - Mel Brooks


Seriously though, Arb - just where are those ripples that Garcia's death left? With the best will in the world, outside the narrow confines of the Grateful Dead fanbase I just don't see it.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 22, 2010 7:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

Well, you're correct of course. I believe what i was striving for was the sense that both Jerry's life (yes flow) and his death in '95 still resonates with a large body of the public. Am i overstating here? Likely, and perhaps my perception is warped by the intensity of the deadhead community, their extreme penchant for keeping the fat man front and centre (a nod to your tongue).

Nice quote by Mel, thanks for that. A bit wordier, and i know i've used the excerpt here on the forum in the past, so sorry for repeating myself, but i love Henry Rollins' take on critics:

"...But some critic taking a swing at me? I know enough now to not get angry. I know that in the real world I could come across the table and that guy couldn't handle me. I also know that I out-gross him, his woman would come with me and that without people like me he doesn't have a job. If I stopped doing what I do, there'd be thousands of letters asking why. If the writer quit his job, no one would notice. I'm putting food on his table. He's not putting food on mine. I realize that in the relationship I am the god. I know in a harsher plane, I'd be king of the jungle and I'd be eating soup from a bowl made of his cranium."

-classic

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 21, 2010 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

hey, that's me! thanks JOTS

and congrats on the kid, that's awesome!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 21, 2010 9:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

which one? whichever one definitely no disrespect intended I hope you know.

And thanks for the congrats. We are very happy and excited.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 22, 2010 6:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

"the college looking type - short hair, t-shirt, incredibly diverse and educated and less like the stereotype with dreds ect"

don't worry, my comment was referring to this part; i have short hair and frequently wear t-shirts, am educated and am, if i may say so, MAGNIFICENTLY diverse. and i've certainly never met anybody with dreadlocks who was a more avid fan of the dead than i.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

"Bluegrass, Country, Boogie, Electronic, R&R, Jazz, etc. "

Exactly, make up your mind.

Plus the Dead were more than a bit uneven.

Oh, yeah and dippy drugs.

That would seem to cover the guy in Kaiser writing the bad review. I bet used used the word noodling.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jul 21, 2010 6:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

The reason is because most people never cried over the fate of all sentient beings!!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jul 22, 2010 5:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

LOL!!!

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 21, 2010 7:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

i think that in time we will have repeated this phrase so many times we will have forgotten the actual place it came from. what the hell was with that guy, anyway?!

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Poster: pjcenedella Date: Jul 21, 2010 9:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The annual rant

love the post.

i often ask my non-head friends why the don't listen to/like the dead. as my buddy so eloquently stated "it's because theyre a bunch of old fucks who do drugs and jam for 3 hours at a time". i laughed. i think a lot of the reason people dont give the dead their due is because they wrap them up in their stereotypes and dont give them a real chance.

oh well. they are human after all :)